Editor’s Note: One of the most dynamic high school counselors we’ve met to date is Shaun McElroy, who works with students in Shanghai. This thought-provoking interview with Shaun took place via email and Facebook over the past week, and we think you’ll enjoy.
First, a brief primer on Shaun — tell us a little bit about you, your current job, how long you’ve lived in China…
This is my fourth year in Shanghai; previously I lived and worked in Caracas and Bangkok. In all three places I was a high school counselor providing personal counseling as well as college counseling. Shanghai American School is the largest international school in China. We have over 3000 students from 40 different countries studying with us. I love living abroad as it gives me a chance to immerse myself in a culture and really try and understand it from the inside.
Shanghai Photo courtesy Wikipedia
Your role as international counselor puts you right in the middle of the marketing dialogue between universities and the students they are courting. What are the big changes you’ve seen over the past few years in how universities market themselves to students?
Much more direct marketing. To the point of absurdity: One of my kids feels he is being stalked by Columbia. He knows he is never, ever getting into Columbia. Does he need a restraining order?
Parents as partners in the process. Very few colleges do not have a section of their website specifically dedicated to their concerns and ideas. In the old days, we used to view college counseling as something that happened between student and college with the counselor acting as a conduit and advisor, but the reality is many young people DO WANT their parents involved—and even if they do not, they parents are involved.
Embracing rankings. [It used to be] most colleges simply smiled at whatever place they were on the list and left it at that. Now many sites have “fast facts” which celebrate their rankings. In presentation after presentation I hear admission reps talk about their top-ranked business, engineering, economics, creative writing program, etc. When I ask for the source (because I love lists) they look at me blankly. It drives me personally nuts. It just feeds the monster.
Embracing personal technologies. Most colleges allow you to create “my webpage” which allows you to customize what you want to know. This is a good thing. Moreover: Colleges have such as MIT and Illinois have created space for authentic voices to show up on in their marketing in the forms of student blogs. I love this. It is the real deal.
I’d like to talk about the University “brand” — and, from where you are, whose brand has made tremendous strides in the past few years?
Firstly the Canadians and Australians. For a long time the UK and US owned international education. Not anymore. The Dutch and Irish are coming next. You heard it here first.
Some specific US campuses that really have done well for various reasons:
1) NYU: They are the city and everyone loves that city.
2) The Big Ten. Schools like Purdue, Wisconsin, Illinois are well respected and even loved by international families. They have over come their bigness and Americanism to really have broad appeal.
3) Small liberal arts colleges: Colleges that Change Lives really helped this. This is not just one school but rather a style of experience.
4) University of Miami: [School President Donna] Shalala can be given much credit from continuing to promote this university as an academic powerhouse that loves to play. Back in the day, they used to be known as the rich kid party school…this is still a battle with some families, but they have really gotten some great people into key positions and are reshaping their college. Plus their admissions folks love it.
5) Lynn University: Really this is all about high touch: The admission team has really connected with students are all over the globe. They are fun, warm, energetic. They do not oversell their university. Actually there are several university that have done this right: Got the right people on the bus so to speak and really embraced what they are.
6) Vanderbilt: It was like they had their own coming out ball this past year. A combination of really hitting the road, challenging old beliefs about the south, frats, and more. They are reinventing themselves and people are paying attention. They have started bring counselors to campus to help them understand first hand. This is key. Actually Miami and Lynn do this as well.
I’m curious about how often schools come to visit your students in Shanghai, and what sort of brand ambassador activities you see there — be it with alumni groups or current students.
We will have over 250 visits this year, including several large college fairs. This is not just US colleges, mind you. We have colleges of every conceivable combination: From world leaders like Oxford, McGill, Penn, MIT, Melbourne, HKUST, LSE, Brown, to specialty art schools and hotel management schools, to small liberal art colleges to Delft (aeronautical Engineering in English in Holland). Very fun.
Many times they show up with alum, which brings a real world connection. With over a half million expats in Shanghai, you can probably find an alum from virtually any state…maybe not ever university, but so many you would loose count.
This means that many of our students have the opportunity to interview with Alumni here. There are active chapters of many of the major unis, I See events advertised all the time. A while back a former dean of students from Harvard was here for a book launch. Very fun to see all the Crimson come out. Sports bars do great business on college bowl days.
China is also very perplexing to the universities. Everyone wants to be here, but noone has it figure out just yet. How to figure out where the top students are, how to attract them, these are big questions. Alum could help a lot more on that.
How has the “American” brand been impacted over the past few years? Do kids still say “Harvard” and “Princeton” just because they are American universities, or is some of the lustre gone from getting an education in the USA?
No luster is gone. In fact the opposite. More Bling. America is still perceived as a great opportunity and these sort of schools are the key. It is brutal in one sense because many of my families will not let their kids apply to places they have never heard of.
New technologies — for someone sitting in the University Marketing “C-suite,” what are the big things they need to know about being a “digital immigrant” vs. a “digital native?”
Kids are online. They live at Youtube and Facebook. Do you? They love realness, so do not try and control these venue too much, just be aware. High tech demands high touch. The more you can speak their language (and I mean this literally as in Chinese or Spanish) the better you will do. This will surprise you: They do not really read blogs and they DO NOT listen to podcasts. Go figure. They still like paper sources like College Prowler and your own brochures (Just do not stalk them). They love real people. Most of mine think that IM or text messaging from colleges would be kind of weird.
They love getting real phone calls and emails – just check the time on the phone calls. I have had a few student woken up.
Final thought: we’ll give you one sentence to leave with the audience….
Distinguish yourselves. For many of us you all look kinda the same: You value diversity, offer internships, have small class sizes, Do study abroad, have new dorms, have great food, offer hundreds of courses….You need to tell stories that help the kids connect. Stories only you could tell.
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